Mental Health & Music | First Edition
Featuring Brooke Penrose, Jordan Obarzanek and Tammy Haider
I know it can feel fearfully isolating during tough times, please always reach out to Lifeline for support on 13 11 14.
As a musician who lives with mental health challenges, I have a personal interest in exploring this topic and creating conversations in the hope of bringing some comfort, acceptance and understanding in our community. In my experience, it seems there is a stigma around mental health and creativity, that an artist is more likely to be a tortured or sensitive soul.
During bouts of depression, I have lacked energy and found it really difficult to make music. It feels overwhelming to face my instruments, let alone pick them up. If I am able to push through, I have found making music beneficial to my mood. Even though it was so hard to make a start, once I was able to, it was the difference I needed to break the cycle. I then feel a small boost in my energy that fuels more music and the cycle begins; creating meaning and a shift away from a negative state of mind.
In this edition, three musicians open up about their own experiences and their reality of mental health and music.
Introducing the participants:
Brooke Penrose (48)
Bands: (past) Saint Jude, Little John, (current) Acid Arrow, Eaten by Dogs
Job: Music and Illustration at Captain B studios
Jordan Obarzanek (31)
Projects/bands - Cloud Ice 9, Dummy Tree, Body Clock, D.R, OBA
Job: Bartender, music.
Tammy Haider
Bands: (past) royalchord, (present) Tammy Haider, Stuart Prentice
Jobs: Songwriter/musician and Visual Arts Student teacher.
In what ways can music influence your mental health as both a creator / performer and as a listener?
Brooke: For me making music is a necessity to keeping my mental health stable. It’s an outlet for self expression and a stabilising influence.
Jordan: It can really be such a varied influence, at times nurturing and profound, and at others, confusing and demoralizing.
Tammy: I think as a creator there is something about harnessing your emotional state into a song, tapping into your inner world and listening to what's going on for you that can't help but have a positive impact on your mental state. This is but one of many of the benefits of making music, coming together and playing it with other people, the pure communal nature of it, one feels less alone and isolated and connects with something bigger than themselves and other people at the same time. Not to mention the physiological effect it has when you sing or play an instrument, it just makes you feel good. As a creator it is also a great way to tap into and understand what's going on in your inner world, and to be able to articulate and work through that and make a song out of it is really good for your head, soul and heart.
As a listener I think it's a lot of the same thing, listening to music is a way to work things out, it relaxes you, flexes your empathy muscle. You get a window into someone else's existence, sometimes you can relate, sometimes what they are singing about is exactly what you are going through, sometimes not but I think the point is it is a way to connect, connect to someone else's life, highs, lows, experiences and that is a powerful and beautiful thing. It's also good if you want to dance, or change your mood, it can do all those things within one song (sometimes less!).
I think ultimately that music makes the world a better place, it makes us more empathetic and understanding towards each other and creates a space for however you are feeling.
How do you think your mental health affects your own music?
Brooke: In the past much of my music was about my struggles with mental health, though these days it’s more a way to say the things that I need to say about politics and morality.
I think that most musicians probably deal with their issues through the making of music.
Jordan: For me it’s kind of the same with exercising, if I’m in a bad mental health state going for a run can feel really grounding and healing, but if I’m feeling fine, the same run can be pretty boring, even though it’s the same amount of exercise. It’s the same with music, it doesn’t necessarily change the quality of my music but it definitely feels more profound when it’s helping you through something. I think unfortunately for me I am one of those people that finds it easier to write when I’m processing complicated emotions, which at times isn’t really a sustainable practise.
Tammy: Well I'd say if I am not feeling the best I will struggle to want to practice and play my songs, they may bring up too much for me and I just might not be in the right headspace where I can deal with that happening. That said though I do always tend to feel better when I play and sing, just flexing my vocal cords lifts my mood and I absolutely love singing with other people. I find that being in a choir or just singing with someone else is just so good, it literally makes you feel better about everything and lifts you out of whatever funk you may have been in. The same can be said for playing with other musicians, that is also a guaranteed game changer.
How do you navigate mental health challenges when you have music commitments to fulfil, for example gigs, rehearsals, and touring?
Brooke: That’s hard. Some days I just don’t want to do anything creative. I’m dealing with some long term health problems on top of my brain issues, but even when it’s hard, it’s always rewarding.
Jordan: Take breaks, cancel, gigs come and go.
I see it as a good opportunity for growth, so I incubate and try to make sense out of my stuff through art. It's all a really big part of it at the end of the day. Some of my favorite artists lived terribly sad and hard lives, and it’s a really difficult thing to come to terms with - that they sacrificed and suffered to present this gift, lotus flower out of the mud style, like Daniel Johnston.
But then again that was their choice, though it probably didn’t even feel like a choice at the time. That was the only way they could process living.
Tammy: Thankfully these days that is not something I have to navigate so much but in the past I have found it difficult. When Royalchord did our most touring I didn't have a home, just a mattress set up in a room at a friend's house with a few of my possessions and not having a stable home base definitely had adverse effects for me at the time. This not being grounded extended itself whilst we were on the road, and it was hard to remain balanced. Being on the road, and out in the world going from town to town playing is kinda wild, I mean anything can and did happen so if you are not feeling the best it can be quite challenging. The first tour we did of the states we played 28 shows in 32 days or something like that and at the end of it I don't think I had ever felt so spent in my life. I have often thought that touring can be almost opposite of what musicians can cope with, being fragile, sensitive beings, we need to protect ourselves from the elements and if you haven't worked out or don't have the right tools to cope with the world going out there and performing night after night in a different place, dealing with and meeting new people all the time coupled with alcohol, it is actually quite confronting, at least it was for me at that point in my life.
I don't wanna sound sour on touring because I have had lots of great experiences playing music outside of Australia and I love travelling but the reality of being an independent musician just means a lot of things on the road are compounded and I think you just need to have strategies and tools to stay grounded and feel secure and cool about what you are on the road for which is to perform, enjoy yourself and share your music with the wider community.
Do you feel supported by your peers / music community during challenging times?
Brooke: Very much. The music community in Melbourne tends to be like minded and supportive. My band mates are just like me too haha
Jordan: This is a really interesting question, I think capitalism is kind of killing empathy and this has a strong, negative impact on music communities. Often, instead of feeling supported I think a lot of people feel like they're competing - which they are, because the machine’s designed like that.
There’s a lot of toxic business people in the music industry and it generally leads to underpaid, poorly treated artists. So I guess I feel more anxious and skeptical in live music settings than many other places. Then again there are some really good people swirling around in the mix, usually radio people or diy music venue people, and other chill bands that aren’t trying to divide and conquer.
Tammy: No, unfortunately not ! I don't really feel part of any music community as such to be honest. I definitely did when I was in Royalchord but have found since performing solo and growing older people don't just seem to be there for you as much or as supportive. I don't live in Melbourne anymore so this could be part of it but even when I was there I never really found my tribe. I have become more self-sufficient and adapted to this new way of being. Luckily I have a very understanding best friend and partner who both know about the highs and lows of being creative.
Do you think there are stigmas around mental health and music?
Brooke: Not as such. But I think it’s a cliché to be a depressed musician. So perhaps that comes with its own stigmas.
Jordan: Sure I mean, I just think it’s ironic because it can be so hard to make being an artist feel like a stable and worth-while thing to do, yet there can be so much shock and judgement to artists who carry demons and addictions just to cope with it. I don’t think people really respect it as a career you know, unless you become famous. It’s seen as this privileged thing to be able to tinker with, and is extremely prone to exploitation, but it undeniably is such an important part of cultural and emotional growth individually and en masse. It all feels lofty to say while there’s a literal genocide going on right now, but it’s kind of a good example because I think if future generations of trauma had more options available to them in how to direct that sort of hurt and anger, we would see less vicious cycles being repeated.
Some survivors of the Holocaust wrote books and made art in response but many could only think of taking what had been taken from them. Unless we value the link between mental health and trauma with artistic expression and healthy communication then all this violent energy is just going to keep caving in on its fucking self.
Tammy: Yes I do. I mean I think things are better these days, people are now more educated about mental health and it is generally more acceptable and ok to be upfront and open about when you are struggling. But having said that, in music (and it is the same for other creative art forms) having mental health difficulties can make you seem somehow weaker or fallible to others, and they don't like being confronted by what can be perceived as a weakness within you.
I think the ironic thing is that, as with any art form where part of creating is about exploring who you are, you are going to come up against tricky terrain, I mean you are plumbing your depths and sometimes this can get ugly and hard, it can break you a bit.
And then you know there's all the life stuff that can happen and have an adverse effect on you, it's not always necessarily linked to the creative process as such.
And as a society we kind of shun broken people, whether they brought it on themselves or were dealt bad cards, we don't want to see it let alone have to deal with it so yes I do think there is a definite stigma with mental health and music. But you know this is what artists do, we mine our souls on a regular basis, it is what makes for good art and music. One has to look no further than this idea of the 'suffering artist' to kind of understand how artists have been perpetuated throughout time as having to pay with their psychological state for their art, but I for one am over that stereotype, I just don't think it should be like that. I kind of bought into it for a long time and it just wasn't healthy, no one should have to make themselves suffer to make art.
I also think it can be hard to deal with the reality of making music these days, the onus has become much more on the artist to do literally everything for themselves, and when you are never compensated adequately for all that time you spend pushing your music, doing the admin, social media, gig booking, through the performing, writing and the selling of your music, it is very hard to make a comfortable existence for yourself. You are always depending on other things to survive, what should be pleasurable starts to be stressful and this can also take a toll on your mental health.
Is there anything else you would like to share on music and mental health?
Brooke: I’d love the wider community to recognise how much benefit art and music has to the world, to peoples day to day. I wish we valued music like we do money and power.
Jordan: Yeah, a while ago Happy Tapes (myself and Reis, also in Cloud Ice 9) tracked down this puppeteer busker named Barbara who had the appearance of a disheveled, bearded man in an old wedding dress, and would dance and sing in the city with their strange home made creations of drift wood and tangled fishing line. We interviewed them over the course of a day and learnt a lot about their predominantly difficult and estranged life, all seemingly in pursuit of their artistic expression. The clips on Youtube highly rec for a watch, but at the end we asked them if they had any advice for young, aspiring artists and they said this:
“I think that the bad wrap of the arts is that they say ‘Ah well why would you bother, why would you worry about that side if it's so hard and complex’, but it’s also so beautiful. I know there’s this big thing about mental health at the moment but the arts are especially vulnerable to people sort of opening up and never coming back. You need some friends, you know, you need some people who really understand you. I suppose my nurturing side says 'if you’re going to go into the arts, f***ing well look after yourself'”.
Tammy: I have always made things, and was driven to create as a way to deal with things in my world that couldn't be expressed in any other way. This has had and continues to have a really positive effect on my mental health, being creative is one of the only things I can honestly say I am good at. I used to think it was ok to suffer for this and that you kind of had to if you wanted to make anything good. I am pleased to say I don't think like that anymore and now I know how to be creative in a much healthier way. That said I still struggle with being an artist, what it actually means to be one in this day and age, the reality of it all. I think in Australia there is just not enough support for musicians and artists, and we definitely don't earn enough money for what we do. The digitisation of music for one has completely reduced sales of music for artists and people seem to think it is ok to not have to pay for music, I mean why pay when they can get it for free?!
There needs to be a big shift in how musical artists are viewed in Australia, and the arts in general need much more funding, the living wage for artists has been on my mind a bit lately, because I think a lot of the reasons that musicians struggle with mental health is often because they put so much into their music.
They just want to get it out there and play and often the money is just this secondary thing we get, but it barely takes care of the costs of showing up to play let alone other things in our lives we may need. Being creative is not something that can be commodified but it has its own intrinsic value for everyone, just go to a gig or an art gallery and you can see this happening. Music benefits everyone, and I firmly believe if musicians were properly valued more here for what it is they produce and add to Australian society we'd have less mental health struggles.
If you are interested in participating in the next edition, please connect with tempomusicblog@outlook.com
Great discussion, it’s such a difficult area to navigate especially at the moment in Australia.
Given the lack of economic opportunity I’ve definitely framed my life as a musician more about healing and self development despite having the skills to pursue it.
Also fun fact but a Little John song helped me a lot when I was younger and the mental health shit really hit the fan. So thanks for that ❤️